Katie Spades Busted!

[RG_]

Chris, you'll notice that in my post I noted that the premise for the arrest might not be good. I entirely understand what you're saying.

I'm separating the issues. I think the arrest for the issue at hand shouldn't have happened. But since it did, who better than Katie and Jack to suffer the unfair consequences? They went beyond manipulation and lied and defrauded the kink community to steal--that's not too strong a word--their money.

I have no sympathy for them. While the kink community does not deserve these kinds of laws or actions, Katie and Jack are getting just what's coming to them. (And, no, I was not one to lose money to them. I thought they had issues all along.)

I don't mean that in any negative way toward you at all.

Originally Posted by scChris

Hey all,
I have not posted on this board before. So Hi. Anyway, I am aware of all the lies Katie Spades used to manipulate people in the scene, and I realize she has a karmic smackdown coming to her. On the other hand, any time the law comes down on the kinksters, is it really a good thing? I mean, what about the professionals in the spanking scene, some of which are friends. There are those who find it difficult to get their spanking needs met and therefore seek out pros, both top and bottom. I would hate to see a crackdown on these people. Yes, it is Katie Spades. True she is a F$%# up. But still, I don't think an arrest of this nature is something to celebrate. Just my opinion.
Chris in Santa Cruz

[CaliSpanker]

Damn, I'm never posting on craigslist again.

[garyspk]

Originally Posted by RG_

Chris, you'll notice that in my post I noted that the premise for the arrest might not be good. I entirely understand what you're saying.

I'm separating the issues. I think the arrest for the issue at hand shouldn't have happened. But since it did, who better than Katie and Jack to suffer the unfair consequences? They went beyond manipulation and lied and defrauded the kink community to steal--that's not too strong a word--their money.

I have no sympathy for them. While the kink community does not deserve these kinds of laws or actions, Katie and Jack are getting just what's coming to them. (And, no, I was not one to lose money to them. I thought they had issues all along.)

I don't mean that in any negative way toward you at all.

RG, once again I've purposely tried to stay out of the comments on this thread. But I gotta step in here for just a moment.

This whole thing with Katie and Jake is very sad. They contacted me about 2 years ago with grandiose (sp?) ideas of selling their personal spanking videos. I really didn't think they fit us that much, but I encouraged them to go for it. The new people at RealSpankings bit and started buying some of their videos. Then Katie and Jake started their own deal. And somewhere along the way, it all took a wrong turn. It's too bad that it's turned out like this.

I REALLY hate that the "bust" involves paid discipline. I do think that has its place and I certainly hope that isn't what brings them down. My guess (after reading several accounts of this fiasco) is that there was prostitution implied. If that's so, then that is the reason why this has turned into such a big deal. I'm not saying that's what Katie and Jake intended because I really do not know. But I do know if the cops thought there was prostitution, that's why it's turned into such a big story.

Regardless, this is another incident that puts a black eye on our fetish. And I know all of us hate that.

[spankingprincess2005]

serves that bitch right she lied to the spanking community i am glad she got arrested ..

[sarah thorne]

My, she's looking pretty well for someone who's been prowling the internet for money under the guise of dying and needing help meeting her healthcare expenses.

Originally Posted by LondonTanner

I tend to agree with Chris. Whatever my thoughts on Miss Spades, it is bad when anyone gets busted doing what we do whether they be proffesional or not, it reflects on our whole lifestyle and we need to learn to stick together if we ever hope to achive sexual equality.
~Ian www.TheLondonTanners.com

I don't think we should ever condone or support fraudulent behavior, whether it be in our lifestyle or not. Because then that behavior reflects on us as a community. We don't have to denounce what they did to denounce the way they went about doing it.

Originally Posted by scChris

Hey all,
I mean, what about the professionals in the spanking scene, some of which are friends. There are those who find it difficult to get their spanking needs met and therefore seek out pros, both top and bottom. I would hate to see a crackdown on these people.

The "professionals" I know do their work within the law that governs their kinds of business.

In public interviews prior to all of this, she admitted to defrauding the spanko community as a fake, admitted to making thousands upon thousands of dollars in doing it, slammed the community in the process calling it 'sick' among other words and then feigned terminal illness (her myspace page was one place I saw it) to defraud people of even more money.

Being proven liars, I have a hard time believing Jake when he claims Katie did nothing illegal and 'threw the guy out'. If the cops were conversing with her through electronic means, I am sure they have the conversations that implied either directly or indirectly that 'extra' services were available for an additional fee. Also, with prostitution stings, the transaction and agreement has to take place before the arrest happens. That falls under prostitution which, like it or not, is illegal in most areas. I think the other stuff mentioned in the news stories ("dungeon" "S&M", "sex toys", etc) just made the story more sensational.

Someone mentioned something on another forum, which I found to be a good point. There is a difference in how the law extends to individual activity and to commercial activity. Even charging for spanking services, or any service in the vanilla world, and making it a 'business' comes with laws governing those businesses. With certain businesses come zoning laws, tax laws, and when/how one can operate. In many locales, businesses considered of an 'adult' nature have laws applying to them apart from normal business laws. In some places it is illegal entirely. Many places that are rented (an apartment, for instance) can not be used to run or carry out business activities unless there is a specific contract that deems it alright to do so. And even then, local zoning laws can override that.

I can't run a daycare in my home unless I meet certain criteria under the law - and I must report my income.

I sell spanking erotica through my website and another commercial website. The money I generate is reported to the IRS. That's the law. What I do in this regard to make extra income is not illegal - but dodging the law in order to do it *is*.

In my opinion, this is not a matter of individual right, but a matter of business law. And illegal activity (prostitution) as alluded to in reports. The news never tells the whole story, so none of us can really make a fully informed judgment on whether the arrest was unjust or not. But just looking at their past behavior of manipulative and downright fraudulent activity, I doubt very seriously the police arrested them for simply being kinky.

IMO, it's not the cops who create the 'black eye' - it's people like Katie and Jake who give the unfair impression that our community can not be trusted by simple association. It kills me that people are still willing to believe that they are being truthful in that they 'did nothing', simply because they are (supposedly) "one of us". That's like saying OJ should get off because of his skin color.

I hope they dig further and find out about all their fraud. I hope the IRS and attorney general are sicced on them.

ps - when I find the links to the interviews, I will post them. I didn't save them, but I have a source who knows where all this stuff is at!

sarah

[sarah thorne]

After some research, under Massachusetts law (even if all she did was agree to spank the man for a fee) Katie would be guilty for breaking a law doing even the bit that she (or rather, Jake) admitted to. Some links of interest.

Note that the statute says 'for a fee' , which is what makes it illegal (along with all of the other tax/zoning/business laws for operating a business, sex oriented at that, out of one's home)

The statute itself under which she was obviously arrested.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53a.htm

It says: Section 53A. (a) Whoever engages, agrees to engage, or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee, or whoever pays, agrees to pay, or offers to pay another person to engage in sexual conduct, or to agree to engage in sexual conduct with another natural person, shall be punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 1 year or by a fine of not more than $500 or by both such imprisonment and fine, whether such sexual conduct occurs or not.

And then, the state of Massachusetts definition of "sexual conduct" --

http://archives.lib.state.ma.us:8080...88Acts0226.txt

"Sexual conduct", human masturbation, sexual intercourse, actual or simulated, normal or perverted, any lewd exhibitions of the genitals, flagellation or torture in the context of a sexual relationship, any lewd touching of the genitals, pubic areas, or buttocks of the human male or female, or the breasts of the female, whether alone or between members of the same or opposite sex or between humans and animals, and any depiction or representation of excretory functions in the context of a sexual relationship. Sexual intercourse is simulated when it depicts explicit sexual intercourse which gives the appearance of the consummation of sexual intercourse, normal or perverted.

Kara Rogers, writing under the Web pseudonym “Miss Gorgeous,” allegedly informed Fong she is paid $175 a half hour for virtually everything, including “spanking, role play, bondage, tease, bondage and toys.”

A full hour of torture was $250, and an extra $50 earned a customer extra benefits, according to Fong. (Boston Herald Police Bureau Chief
Tuesday, August 28, 2007)

It seems the key is that money must be paid, or agreed to be paid, for these things to be done in a sexual context. These things between consenting individuals as part of a relationship is not mentioned. Just like giving sex away is not a crime, but receiving/offering money for it is.

Interesting enough, I did a search for BDSM clubs in Boston and found ones that seem to be legal. So, apparently, one *can* indeed charge for services when operating within the law. After researching license laws for adult oriented businesses in the Boston area, they are indeed subject to zoning and licensing regulations.

Just like any other business.

sarah

[iggy]

Aside from the fact that katie spades getting busted just makes me laugh...I have to say that I'd be less than pleased if someone in my apartment building was buzzing in strangers (they met on craigslist no less) and allowing a stream of people into the building. That really compromises the security of your building. I mean who knows who you are letting in. Katie sure didn't, since she let in a cop!

Then there's the noise, etc. Spanking and BDSM activities don't tend to be quiet.

[ToddnSuzy]

We certainly fall into the camp that says karma just gave Katie/Kara/etc one heck of a spanking... and, of course, we all know the former 'Princess of Spanking' doesn't like spanking.
*
She admits that she set out*with a calculated plan to extract money from the spanko community with lies and deceit.* That with her*'gorgeous' looks (when compared to others in the industry) and knowledge of spanking from research... along with immersing herself into the community under false pretenses (pretending to be a spanko)... she'd become a star and make "tons of money."
*
She further elaborates that Jake was initially against the idea... until he saw the money to be made.* And that they both agreed this was a better way to make a buck than porn.* That she had to be*"wasted" to actually do the spanking... what she says... apparently wasn't enough of a negative to push porn to the top of the money making list of ideas.
*
When she decided to exit the spanking community... she did so by asking for $650,000 for her life threatening illnesses (through her 'Save Katie' site).* And she did ask.* She directly solicited us, asking that we help put the word out (through our blog) that she desperately needed help.
*
Of course, she did this while also slamming the spanking community in the media, and bragging about her the cleverness of her scheme.
*
When all this came to a head, we did cut Katie somewhat of a break in our beer.com interview with her.* We figured she was young, and she was exiting the scene anyway... so, no money for her scam donation site of course... but, good luck in life.
*
Turns out, she wasn't all that young... and she wasn't exiting the scene at all.* INSTEAD, she had a new way to scam money from spankos.* And yes, it was a scam.* Does anyone believe for a second she was even semi-honest with her clients?* That she was upfront about her experience as a disciplinarian?* That she told them how disgusting she thought spanking marks were?* That she shared her feelings about spanking and spankos?
*
The professional disciplinarians we know are real spankos. Their profession grew out of a real interest in spanking. It was something they'd long thought about... then started to try... then do... then realized they were ~good at it~ and a living could be made. It wasn't just another scam... in a long stream of scams... to make money.

Zero sympathy for Katie. She got what she deserved.

As for the angle that what happened to Katie is bad for spankos... because we shouldn't ever be happy about the law getting involved with spanking... we completely disagree with that.

The police are saying Katie was offering "virtually everything"... and for $50 more, she'd give "benefits" beyond that virtually everything. She was offering sex along with the spanking, which makes her a prostitute. She was doing this on Craig's List (at least) and working out of her residential apartment.

Would anyone want that next door to them?

The black eye Katie gives spanking comes from the fact that she is somehow seen as a spanko. If she were dismissed as the lying, manipulative, money hungry whore she is... it would be better for the community. She's busted for hooking off of Craig's List... the only thing bad about that, is when spankos say the arrest is bad for spankos (because it pretends Katie is one of us).

That's our opinion anyway.


Here is a link to some of our posts about Katie, including our beer.com interview with her...

http://associety.blogspot.com/2007/0...-spanking.html

[Nomad]

Being new to the community and thankfully never had the unpleasure of dealing with her I was not going to post. But it does concern me of how the whole thing is being spun in the media, and what laws it may impact in regards to CP and the laws. I know there are some good groups out there such as Amature, the Spanking Couple, Dallas to name a few that will pay for models to do shoots. Will this pay infact become prostitution because of something like the way the Spades case may go, or even influance just general public view on D/D or BDSM life styles? These are things that concern me about this whole thing.

[EmmyDoll]

Alright.

It's my two cents worth on it.

Katie Spades HAS screwed up.

And don't get me wrong, I do not condone most of the things that she did, but I think that the spanking community is just way to hateful in the way that they are taking this arest deal.

I'm not defending her, by no doubt.

But, just because she bashed our community does not make her a horrible person. It makes her ignorant and unaccepting, but it gives us no reason to cast stones, especially when most of us live in a glass house.

We cannot point fingers at Katie and Jake for making money off 'bondage' 'roleplay' and anything 'scene related' because there are many people in our world that our paid Mistresses.

The only thing that we CAN frown upon is that there might have been soliciotation of sex, which, isn't really any of our buisness anyway is it?

Lets cut the people some breaks and stop talking about them. They seem to be having a hard enough time without knowing that there is a whole community of people who are angry at them.