SSC *yawwwnnnnnnn*

[aurora]

Safe, Sane, and Consentual, yada, yada, yada.... We're heard it all before. Well, I think it's over-rated!

Personally, I happen to be a fan of non-consentual spanking. I know that's not "politically correct", honestly, I do. It's how my head works, though. It's that adrenaline rush of getting up-ended by a man (or woman) who actually takes action, rather than talk something around in whiney circles. It's the feeling of helplessness and desperation when they ignore your cries and pleas! It's the twisting and bucking in a hopless attempt for freedom, knowing all the while that your efforts are futile.... and relishing every second of it in the deepest recesses of my mind!

This leaves me in an awful dilema at parties. The rules are that you have to ask someone to play, and they have to agree, and you go off merrily to commence your spankering... I can't say "yes" to anyone when they ask, though. The whole begging my permission thing is such a turn off! Even if I really, really wanted to play with that person, it's damned near impossible for me to answer "yes", when asked. Luckily I've always had dear friends with me who could whisper in a good candidate's ear, "psssttt.... just take her off by the arm!" Of course, this means that there has to be some sort of connection between individuals, and that the spanker understands the spankee is giving off the "yes, please!" vibe, without actually speaking the words. I'm certainly not suggesting that any Joe Schmoe who wants a peice of my tail can have it.

What about the other two, safe and sane? Hell, take a look around at your peers. I'm not sure any of us are the sanest people around. In addition to our little idiosyncrasies, there's the obvious part that we're all either desiring pain inflicted upon ourselves or desiring to hurt someone else, to some extent or another. If a general census was taken, how many people would consider that sane???? That's okay, though, I wouldn't want it any other way. The little mantra repeated amongst Florida Moonshine members is "I'm not normal, but I'm nice", and I think that's just perfect.

I'm not really sure you could accurately call our activities "safe", either. Sure, we take precautions. The idea is never to cause any lasting damage. We try to be in tune to our partners' reactions and needs. A lot of people use safewords, ect... Facts are facts, though. We're still talking about a repeatitive, blunt force trauma. There's always the chance for harm to occur. When a stroke goes stray and catches on our backs or something... sure, we may throw a hissy fit, but for the most part we accept that those ill-landed swats are part of the packaged deal. There are always the odd and unexpected injuries too.... Naughty roaming hands getting caught under the implement, choking on the soap, pulling a hamstring while trying to maintain position, pinching someone's nipple off in a clamp... who knows? And what about the marks? How often do you see people comparing marks or talking about them? For those who don't require discression, marks are worn with pride, a badge of honor! How does THAT speak of safety?

Anyway, I'm welcoming other input. This was just my little rant. Am I alone in my thoughts?

[jerseysweet]

I second this entire post.

Now that i think about it, all the spankings I've had from people simply asking and me saying yes, were rather boring and difficult to get into...

[paddlemebarenyc]

Well, I do agree that the IDEA of being thrown over a knee or taken by force has appeal...in fantasy land only. I, for one, need to feel safe and secure to fully enjoy what is being done to me. After all, it is MY choice to get spanked...I chose to go to the party, pick a partner, decide on a DD relationship, etc... If I'm unhappy with my situation I simply change it.

I also understand the concept of marks and trauma. Is this sane?
To me it is. If I chose to have a session continue to the point that I am bruised, then so be it. I am in the state of mind to accept what my top has decided to give me. I also wouldn't be comfortable playing with someone who would willingly hurt me. I have read and heard HORROR stories of spankees being abused. I, myself, have had to end a session by physically getting up and fighting back because things had crossed that line.

Frankly, I think it all boils down to responsibilty. Being responsible enough to care for your own well being. We make the choice to enter this lifestyle and we should be adult enough to leave it if it doesn't benefit us.

I have been fortunate enough to find tops that take that control from me....and let me rest in the knowledge that I am safe with them. It is precisely from this trust that I can accept whatever they give me....bruises, marks, stripes...what have you. Those are marks I will gladly wear with pride.

[sarah thorne]

Safe, Sane, Consensual are used, of course, within the context of what we are doing. Does that mean those words would be used in the same context in other vanilla situations? Probably not.

To even think of applying the same connotation is actually somewhat dangerous (read truly unsafe), and can be confusing to Tops, as if they don't have enough confusion as it is. I doubt most spanko women want spanko men to read this and get the idea that they can just grab any woman at a party because it's secretly "what they want", then continue subject them to all kinds of S&M activities of which they have no interest in or truly dislike.

So safe, sane, consensual within the context of you and your partner and what you want/like/desire is vastly different from truly non consensual activity.

I actually thought you made a post somewhat contradictory to the ideas expressed here just a few weeks ago about crossing lines......

No wonder guys get confused.

paddlemebarenyc, you said it perfectly.

sarah

Aurora,

This is a forum for the exchange of ideas. To borrow a line from Samuel L. Jackson in "Pulp Fiction"....."Oh were you finished? Well allow me to retort."

Safe: I have preached time and again on the importance of safety and respect. It is the bedrock principle that should guide this or any other fetish play. I have a good friend...someone who was just getting into the scene who made the error of meeting someone from out of town in a hotel room. I will not go into the details of a very sad story. She was traumatized for weeks. Much as a bottom would like to relinquish control....personal safety has to prevail.

Sane: I resent the implication that someone with this kink is somehow "not normal." We have struggled against that perception from the vanilla world for years. Are there manic depressives, psychotics, socio-paths, anxiety disorder etc. people in the scene? I suppose so but certainly in no greater percentage than a bridge club or bowling team. We practice a fetish that we enjoy. I for one do NOT enjoy inflicting pain. The scene is about playing, reverting to childhood, escape, relaxation and about a thousand other reasons. I have administered very few disciplinary spankings and I didn't enjoy any of them. My wife suffers from migraines. I suppose if I liked to see people in pain I could flash the lights and crank up the Rolling Stones. Instead I make our home a dark, quiet place...place cool clothes on her forehead and sit up beside her until she finally falls asleep....sound like a sadist to you?

Consensual: I wish we had a portable meter that would indicate: "Spanko...wants spanking....will not ask for one.....proceed to blister behind....pay no attention to protests." I'll ask the gang in the Research and Development Lab to get right on that....meanwhile...how else are we to know? If you are at a spanking party it is a pretty good indication that you aren't there to play scrabble but how is a Top to know that your "no" is really a "yes" unless you communicate?

I understand that you would love someone to simply decide that you were due for a spanking and take you in hand without heed to your protests....but Aurora.....unless you can find a special Top that will accept that arrangement...party play is just not the place to expect it.

Warm regards,

rangerboy

[aurora]

My crossing lines post had nothing to do with this lifestyle, but rather the fact that I found it hard to act out against an abusive situation because of my lifestyle choice. That situation was completely outside TTWD.

[friendlyspanker]

I found this exchange interesting because it touched on things that I think about.

For instance, while I've had an interest in spanking since high school, I haven't acted on it much, certainly not in the last few years. I guess a big reason for this is my confusion over the concepts of safe and sane.

Spanking sane? I want to think so as long as it is practiced in the context of a safe and consenual adult connection.

But I made the mistake recently of telling an "open-minded" friend about my interest. The reply? Spanking isn't kinky; it's abuse.

I felt hurt and angry by the reply, especially since this friend has a history of speaking out against closed-minded people and discrimination against "normal" people who don't conform to societal expectations in every regard.

But a part of me also wonders if my special interest is normal. Sometimes I even grab hold of external references to reassure myself. My favorite reference? "The Joy of Sex," a book as mainstream as it comes, and which contains words and picture documenting the normal adult sexual pleasure of spanking.

Spanking safe? Again, I come down on the side of context. Trust and communication between consensual adults is the definition of safety.

But sometimes I enjoy viewing images of women with red bottoms and teary eyes and part of me wonders how I can call an activity that causes this safe.

From the tone of the exchanges, it sounds like you guys are more clear and comfortable than I am in connection with spanking.

So I guess I'm jealous of your peace of mind.

Happy holidays,

Friendly Spanker

[EmmyDoll]

I do agree with you Aurora.

I love the the times where I'm just upended without prior negotionation. This does not mean that we, as people who have this opionion, do NOT pratice safe and sane.

We are mature young ladies and know the people that we would allow to just tip us over their knee and take us to that helpless feeling. We most likely NOT going to do this with any old stranger...

So we are playing be the first to rules of the game, without outwardly speaking a 'yes or no' consent.

I my mind, consent implies knowing ones personal limits, if that person who DOES take charge and does pull the dominant role pushes those limits, consent also implies being able to stop if you no longer are in enjoyment or pleasuere of the situation.

To me, this is the meaning of safe, sane, and conseual.

SSC does NOT mean that you have to prenegoiate ever scene, because they're right... if you know whats going to happen to every minor detail, then.. what fun is that for a bottom. You don't want to feel like you're in control of the scene, do you?

Sorry. Aurora, I just wanted to back you up a little there.

[bushmutt]

Safe - OK! (except beaing beaten to a bloody pulp - I don't think that's safe)
Sane - debateable - depends on who's on the giving and receiving end...
Consensual - yes, in a sense...

I play with someone who doesn't use her safeword hardly ever, which I don't like, because I want to know more of what's going on in her head. She seems to go real deep into subspace, until something happens on the receiving end that she really doesn't like, yanking her out of her fantasy world, and then she jumps up and starts yelling at me...
Sounds fun eh?
She insists she's gets so "stupid" (high, elated, etc. - stupid is her word) during play, that she doesn't have enough control over herself to use her safeword
Doesn't happen that often, but I still don't like the idea of not using a safeword...
And no, negotiating scenes beforehand isn't as fun for sub or top, but sometimes it's good for the bottom to communicate reasonable limits, for the pleasure and enjoyment of both (cause who wants to end a scene being yelled at...)
That's my 2 cents...

[FloridaMichael]

This is an interesting topic.
First off, as a Top, I support Aurora's view that it's a lot more exciting and interesting to *not have to negotiate every scene to the mind-numbing point. Spontaneity is wonderful, in the correct context and setting -- meaning, a spanking party. Grabbing a woman on the street would be the wrong context or setting!
Next, chemstry comes into the picture. At a party, I think sassy come-backs, flirting, and non-verbal signs, can lead to a good scene. Sometimes you just know a lady is wanting a spanking -- so you take her in hand, and make sure through her reactions that she's agreeable to getting one. The chemistry, the connection, are there.
I believe the spanker's sense and experience have to come into play. Some ladies like to brat during a scene, and a spanker can scold during the verbal back and forth. Other women do not like to say much in a scene -- they want to feel, not talk. So you have to be able to read body language and reactions to different implements and intensity levels. But you may have to quietly ask about limits, how're you doing etc. That is understandable.
If a woman may be going into sub-space, you have to be careful -- she may not be able to verbalize real well. That might be a clue to back off a bit, not push the intensity, especially with someone you don't know well.
All of this can be dicey, and there are no guarantees that it's always going to work out great. But I believe if the chemistry feels right, it usually is. If not, don't push it or pursue.
-Michael