SSC *yawwwnnnnnnn*

[paddlemebarenyc]

Well, I do agree that the IDEA of being thrown over a knee or taken by force has appeal...in fantasy land only. I, for one, need to feel safe and secure to fully enjoy what is being done to me. After all, it is MY choice to get spanked...I chose to go to the party, pick a partner, decide on a DD relationship, etc... If I'm unhappy with my situation I simply change it.

I also understand the concept of marks and trauma. Is this sane?
To me it is. If I chose to have a session continue to the point that I am bruised, then so be it. I am in the state of mind to accept what my top has decided to give me. I also wouldn't be comfortable playing with someone who would willingly hurt me. I have read and heard HORROR stories of spankees being abused. I, myself, have had to end a session by physically getting up and fighting back because things had crossed that line.

Frankly, I think it all boils down to responsibilty. Being responsible enough to care for your own well being. We make the choice to enter this lifestyle and we should be adult enough to leave it if it doesn't benefit us.

I have been fortunate enough to find tops that take that control from me....and let me rest in the knowledge that I am safe with them. It is precisely from this trust that I can accept whatever they give me....bruises, marks, stripes...what have you. Those are marks I will gladly wear with pride.

[sarah thorne]

Safe, Sane, Consensual are used, of course, within the context of what we are doing. Does that mean those words would be used in the same context in other vanilla situations? Probably not.

To even think of applying the same connotation is actually somewhat dangerous (read truly unsafe), and can be confusing to Tops, as if they don't have enough confusion as it is. I doubt most spanko women want spanko men to read this and get the idea that they can just grab any woman at a party because it's secretly "what they want", then continue subject them to all kinds of S&M activities of which they have no interest in or truly dislike.

So safe, sane, consensual within the context of you and your partner and what you want/like/desire is vastly different from truly non consensual activity.

I actually thought you made a post somewhat contradictory to the ideas expressed here just a few weeks ago about crossing lines......

No wonder guys get confused.

paddlemebarenyc, you said it perfectly.

sarah

Aurora,

This is a forum for the exchange of ideas. To borrow a line from Samuel L. Jackson in "Pulp Fiction"....."Oh were you finished? Well allow me to retort."

Safe: I have preached time and again on the importance of safety and respect. It is the bedrock principle that should guide this or any other fetish play. I have a good friend...someone who was just getting into the scene who made the error of meeting someone from out of town in a hotel room. I will not go into the details of a very sad story. She was traumatized for weeks. Much as a bottom would like to relinquish control....personal safety has to prevail.

Sane: I resent the implication that someone with this kink is somehow "not normal." We have struggled against that perception from the vanilla world for years. Are there manic depressives, psychotics, socio-paths, anxiety disorder etc. people in the scene? I suppose so but certainly in no greater percentage than a bridge club or bowling team. We practice a fetish that we enjoy. I for one do NOT enjoy inflicting pain. The scene is about playing, reverting to childhood, escape, relaxation and about a thousand other reasons. I have administered very few disciplinary spankings and I didn't enjoy any of them. My wife suffers from migraines. I suppose if I liked to see people in pain I could flash the lights and crank up the Rolling Stones. Instead I make our home a dark, quiet place...place cool clothes on her forehead and sit up beside her until she finally falls asleep....sound like a sadist to you?

Consensual: I wish we had a portable meter that would indicate: "Spanko...wants spanking....will not ask for one.....proceed to blister behind....pay no attention to protests." I'll ask the gang in the Research and Development Lab to get right on that....meanwhile...how else are we to know? If you are at a spanking party it is a pretty good indication that you aren't there to play scrabble but how is a Top to know that your "no" is really a "yes" unless you communicate?

I understand that you would love someone to simply decide that you were due for a spanking and take you in hand without heed to your protests....but Aurora.....unless you can find a special Top that will accept that arrangement...party play is just not the place to expect it.

Warm regards,

rangerboy

[aurora]

My crossing lines post had nothing to do with this lifestyle, but rather the fact that I found it hard to act out against an abusive situation because of my lifestyle choice. That situation was completely outside TTWD.

[friendlyspanker]

I found this exchange interesting because it touched on things that I think about.

For instance, while I've had an interest in spanking since high school, I haven't acted on it much, certainly not in the last few years. I guess a big reason for this is my confusion over the concepts of safe and sane.

Spanking sane? I want to think so as long as it is practiced in the context of a safe and consenual adult connection.

But I made the mistake recently of telling an "open-minded" friend about my interest. The reply? Spanking isn't kinky; it's abuse.

I felt hurt and angry by the reply, especially since this friend has a history of speaking out against closed-minded people and discrimination against "normal" people who don't conform to societal expectations in every regard.

But a part of me also wonders if my special interest is normal. Sometimes I even grab hold of external references to reassure myself. My favorite reference? "The Joy of Sex," a book as mainstream as it comes, and which contains words and picture documenting the normal adult sexual pleasure of spanking.

Spanking safe? Again, I come down on the side of context. Trust and communication between consensual adults is the definition of safety.

But sometimes I enjoy viewing images of women with red bottoms and teary eyes and part of me wonders how I can call an activity that causes this safe.

From the tone of the exchanges, it sounds like you guys are more clear and comfortable than I am in connection with spanking.

So I guess I'm jealous of your peace of mind.

Happy holidays,

Friendly Spanker

[EmmyDoll]

I do agree with you Aurora.

I love the the times where I'm just upended without prior negotionation. This does not mean that we, as people who have this opionion, do NOT pratice safe and sane.

We are mature young ladies and know the people that we would allow to just tip us over their knee and take us to that helpless feeling. We most likely NOT going to do this with any old stranger...

So we are playing be the first to rules of the game, without outwardly speaking a 'yes or no' consent.

I my mind, consent implies knowing ones personal limits, if that person who DOES take charge and does pull the dominant role pushes those limits, consent also implies being able to stop if you no longer are in enjoyment or pleasuere of the situation.

To me, this is the meaning of safe, sane, and conseual.

SSC does NOT mean that you have to prenegoiate ever scene, because they're right... if you know whats going to happen to every minor detail, then.. what fun is that for a bottom. You don't want to feel like you're in control of the scene, do you?

Sorry. Aurora, I just wanted to back you up a little there.

[bushmutt]

Safe - OK! (except beaing beaten to a bloody pulp - I don't think that's safe)
Sane - debateable - depends on who's on the giving and receiving end...
Consensual - yes, in a sense...

I play with someone who doesn't use her safeword hardly ever, which I don't like, because I want to know more of what's going on in her head. She seems to go real deep into subspace, until something happens on the receiving end that she really doesn't like, yanking her out of her fantasy world, and then she jumps up and starts yelling at me...
Sounds fun eh?
She insists she's gets so "stupid" (high, elated, etc. - stupid is her word) during play, that she doesn't have enough control over herself to use her safeword
Doesn't happen that often, but I still don't like the idea of not using a safeword...
And no, negotiating scenes beforehand isn't as fun for sub or top, but sometimes it's good for the bottom to communicate reasonable limits, for the pleasure and enjoyment of both (cause who wants to end a scene being yelled at...)
That's my 2 cents...