How submissive is submissive?

[sarah thorne]

Originally Posted by liz

Anyway, my thought is that I am a fairly liberated woman. I want an equal relationship, and I wouldn't want anyone in control of me, in the usual sense. I could never do "discipline"-- ..... Anyway, I tend to think words and speech are better, my opinion. I could "play discipline" as long as I could establish perimeters. For instance, say if I called him a "big dumb ass" or somethign I wouldn't normally say. Or we'd establish some minor infraction-- such as coming in late without calling. (I might get VERY late.) And then within that establish what could and wouldn't be done. I have never done this all, so I consider this quite theoretical, but what the heck.

I'm sure that from some people's standpoint here this is really odd. :-)
But to me, if someone establishes what would be good for me, it would not, to me, be an adult relationship. I wouldn't, for instance, consider that the male necessarily knows better or is better behaved than i am. In fact, usually males aren't!! (Sorry guys.) I am not making judgments on whatever works for you. If it works and you are happy with it, well more power to you.

I might sort of a wannabe submissive?

--liz

Wow! What a loaded post! lol.

I may get a bit long winded here guys - so bare with me.

When you say

Originally Posted by liz

Anyway, my thought is that I am a fairly liberated woman. I want an equal relationship, and I wouldn't want anyone in control of me, in the usual sense.

...it makes me wonder what your perceptions are of a discipline relationship. Or rather, a relationship which encompasses discipline, as RG's and mine does.What does "in the usual sense" mean? Is your perception of a relationship that has discipline in it based on stories and entries you have seen online?

I believe that DD (domestic discipline) is largely misunderstood and misperceived.

It seems to me that many who form views on DD and what it is have never actually lived the lifestyle or seen a DD relationship that was actually everyday partner oriented rather than one based simply on online communications that eventually culminate in occasional plane trips across the country for a day of reckoning.

You have to keep in mind when forming opinions on how others implement their DD lifestyle based on what you learn from online forums that many people reading, and yes even writing, have no actual experience in living any kind of spanking lifestyle, much less living the lifestyle of DD. They get their information from fantasy story boards and thus form their opinions based on fantasy punishment stories.

Stories/experiences shared by those actually living a day to day life with a DD partner are extremely rare to find. What is actually shared from these individuals is usually a small snippet of life related to the lifestyle itself and does not adequately show what day to day life in a 24/7 DD relationship is actually like. Know why? Cuz everyone would be bored to tears.

I know of only a few couples who live everyday DD in the same household. From my own experience as one of these people, I have to say that the misperceptions are many. RG does not have a list of rules hanging up in our house. RG does not constantly look to find any infraction to have a reason to punish me. RG does not order me about, (altho anyone knowing us knows that I do the ordering about *snicker*) or monitor my daily activities, or punish me if housework isn't done, or dictate a time schedule for me, or make my everyday decisions.

RG doesn't "control" me. He is my protector. He spoils me beyond belief. He rubs my feet, brings me coffee and pampers me. In everyday life, we are boringly vanilla. There are few guidelines that I must adhere to. They largely deal with my own willpower in certain areas. I respond to outside accountability to specific behaviors that I want to control but lack the immediate willpower to do so when faced with it. This is my choice. You indicate that you could do it in a limited fashion if you could "establish perimeters". Most discipline relationships have perimeters established from the beginning-- and those perimeters are established by the couple themselves and not just someone "establishing what is good for you" on their own. Remember, subs in a relationship are getting a need met by the type of the relationship they have chosen to be in and, if the Dom is to meet those needs, he must communicate and listen and nurture and not simply be controlling the situation just because he can, as it seems.

You are a "liberated woman" you say. I have a strong personality and am not short on opinions (ask RG - or anyone else who knows me) Liberating, for me, is not having to fight my demons alone but to have someone there who will be an actual part of me to help in the way that I respond to best. And not everyone responds to the same relationship styles.

Accountability is implemented differently in each situation. You may prefer no 'real' authority in your accountability -- others prefer that their accountability be more than just a reminder and actually include consequence. I am one of those who have a mix of the two -- some light guidelines and reminders can make me choose the right thing in a weak moment - but knowing a consequence is there to back it up helps make sticking to that decision much more ---- ummm, appealing.

Discipline is not about punishment. It's about guidance. There is no one person who knows every and all things - of course not. In my DD relationship, we are equal. Equal value as people, our partnership is fairly equal. Authority is not equal - but my relinquishing of that to RG was not done lightly. It was done after knowing and experiencing that he valued me and respected me and, in his "governing" over me, the intent was to guide and protect. It was a process and a growing and a mutual decision to make.

This may not work for some, and maybe that's where the issue for you is at. For me, I find that a liberating submission is one I operate best under.

The "discipline" helps to guide and encouarge me (there is a difference in discipline and punishment) and the "punishment" is meant to deter me from those things that may harm me, or the well being of my relationships. I desire discipline -- I do not desire punishment. But I do enjoy the benefit that comes from the combination of the two, and that is a much higher sense of security in myself and my own choices and motivation, something I have struggled with in my other adult relationships.

Thanks for reading - if you made it this far!

sarah