Who is Responsible?
 

This kinda was inspired from some rabbits of thought that ran in different directions from the safeword thread....

The question: Who has what degree of responsibility in a play scenario?

Expansion :D : Obviously, both parties should have equal repsonsibility beforehand in communicating with one another about preferences, etc.

But in the actual spanking session itself, when the bottom is in her most vulnerable state and many times affected by emotions, chemicals, etc (such as in subspace) -- who should have the most responsibility at this time in ensuring that everything is kosher? Should the responsibility necessarily be equal at this time?

I will give my answer after reading others.

sarah

Much of the pleasure of submission, I think, comes from being relieved of responsibility. Get together with someone you trust; surrender authority to them, surrender responsibility to them, enjoy.

It's a fine line. There have been times when a spankee is pushed past her limits because she didn't safeword, either because she didn't think it was appropriate or because she was too far gone into subspace to do so. Does it then become the spanker's "fault"? Questions like this usually boil down to "Who's to blame when a scene doesn't go well?"

I am always going to err on the side of caution. I am very careful not to overdo it or to actually hurt a woman. I think a spanking should produce a delicious sting, not serious pain.

I don't know if this will make sense or not, but there lies a personal confict that I have with spanking. As much I as I find spanking to be very erotic, at the same time I am totally appalled and disgusted at any type of violence towards women. Now I am not trying to imply that spanking is violence, we all know if it is applied in a responsible matter, then that's certainly not the case. But I feel that deep down inside, somewhere deep within my psyche, I have issues with hitting a woman on any level. So when I spank, I always try to make conscious effort to apply one that is erotic without being anymore painful than necessary.

I also am a huge fan of female/female spanking in videos, literature, movies, etc. Part of that is because I don't like for another man to intrude on my fantasy. But I believe that another part of that is due largley to the fact that I have psychological issues with men striking women. However, women spanking other women sort of lets me off the hook in that regard and alllows me to resolve those issues to some degree. I know all of this may sound weird for someone who has had a spanking fetish for most of their life, but that's just how I feel personally.

Jackie's on the right track. NONE of us (At least I HOPE none of us) considers this "violence". Spanking is how we show love and affection, even when it's hard or disciplinary. Nelson Mandela once said "True love comes not from the closed fist but from the open hand". Welll.....:) Seriously, though, spanking is NOT violence the way we do it, and I would hope even the harshest spankings we dish out reflect that.

I also agree with Jackie's assessment of F/F videos. As much as I enjoy videos, I have a hard time watching other guys do something I'd rather do myself. Call it jealousy, call it being greedy ;) By the same token, most spankees I know will tell you that "Mommy" ALWAYS hits harder than "Daddy".

My intent is not to finger point, per se, but to encourage a discussion on topics related to our preferential activity ;) .

During a 'scene gone bad', a breakdown of communication is happening, or has happened, for whatever reason it has and the fact is --- vulnerability and high emotions and chemical alterations in the body will and do factor into that. This can and does cause people to lose a real perspective on what may be happening. Due to the nature of the scene and what it requires of both parties should be, IMO, looked at from every angle to prevent a 'scene gone bad'.

Evan, I agree with you. I have "let go" with RG -- but we play in group situations as well and complete and total knowledge of one another is not always possible.

At a successful meet that RG and I usually host each year, the Tops who spank bottoms who they do not know well actually take it upon themselves and make it a point to periodically lean and whisper in the bottom's ear, "is everything alright still?' --- and the girl's are good about speaking up. They don't wait, so to speak, until there is a sign that perhaps the question may be needed.

I guess this is the kind of responsibility I am talking about. Should a Top just spank away, assuming everything is ok, unless the bottom shows obvious signs of distress, or until a blatant safeword is uttered? Or is it his repsonsibility in the role he is playing to play close attention and check without waiting for those signs?

Of course, all of this assuming that the bottom also has full responsibility for recognizing and indicating when there is distress. The liklihood of the bottom being unable to do this vs the Top is greater however, just due to the nature of the bottom's role (my point).

sarah

"Should a Top just spank away, assuming everything is ok, unless the bottom shows obvious signs of distress, or until a blatant safeword is uttered? Or is it his repsonsibility in the role he is playing to play close attention and check without waiting for those signs?"

FYI, great discussion topic Sarah. An important one as well.

I would definitely say "YES it's the Top's responsibility to pay as close attention to what he's doing as possible. Sloppy technique is unacceptable, and hammering away like a jackhammer without regard to the spankee's reactions is equally unacceptable."

Are we still talking about spanking here :confused:



Ok, ok, sorry, sorry........ I'm leaving!! (HD backs out of the door slowly)

Rich :D

In the context of the question asked, I think that the burden of responsibility shifts heavily to the Top. The bottom should do her part, of course, but the Top, who is in primary control, has the responsibility for ensuring that everything is ok and good. He needs to do everything that Sarah said: talk to the bottom beforehand, tell her what he does and what he's like, ask her what she wants and what he needs to know about her, set a safeword into place. He needs to pay close attention, listen to sounds and words, listen to the "emotional" condition, and more. While I don't align with J7's opinion that a spanking should never cause serious pain (I think it should cause whatever the spankee wants it to cause, including serious), I do think that the Top needs to ensure that he doesn't go beyond that.

When it comes to responsibility, it's Top, TOP, TOP!

Stand up to your responsibility, guys!

YOU didn't answer the question, noodle arm! :p

Actually, Rich, the scene I was describing of the Top whispering in a bottom's ear while spanking her was YOU! I distinctly remember seeing you do it with several brats (who you didn't know well) you had over your lap and realizing afterwards that what pleased so many of the bottoms were the Tops taking great care and responsibility to ensure they were still doing alright.

Of course, hitting me on my upper tailbone with a strap wasn't exactly perceptive. :D (I'll never let you live that one down)

**disclaimer** (for the record, someone else was actually spanking me and Rich thought he'd be funny and add another arm to it - only he added his non-primary arm with a back-arm swing to a VERY wiggly target, causing me to expel the F word quite loudly as RG walked by only minutes after telling me I was not to use that word again :( )

sarah

i think that if you value the emotional experience of vulnerability in spanking, then it is essential that the top assume more responsibility for the safety of the bottom.

that said, it is the bottom's responsibility to choose who she plays with carefully, and watch the kinds of situations she gets into. i haven't ever played in a group situation or with strangers really. but if i were somehow hurt after choosing to do that, i wouldn't feel like i could blame the spanker. i mean, i probably wouldn't want to lay eyes on him again. but i would feel that it was my own fault for incorrectly assessing my surroundings or letting my guard down when it wasn't safe to do so.

in my relationship situation, the people who spank me really want me to let down my guard and let go of control and responsibility, so it's essential that i do that and trust them to handle me carefully. they definitely assume that responsibility themselves; i'd never have to push it on them. and because there's three of them, they sometimes check each other. as in, 'careful with that implement, she's sensitive with that' or 'i think that's enough for her for now' or even 'you could probably keep going.' that whole thing makes me feel doubly safe. :)

"=jackie seven;1325]I am always going to err on the side of caution. I am very careful not to overdo it or to actually hurt a woman. I think a spanking should produce a delicious sting, not serious pain.

I don't know if this will make sense or not, but there lies a personal confict that I have with spanking. As much I as I find spanking to be very erotic, at the same time I am totally appalled and disgusted at any type of violence towards women. Now I am not trying to imply that spanking is violence, we all know if it is applied in a responsible matter, then that's certainly not the case. But I feel that deep down inside, somewhere deep within my psyche, I have issues with hitting a woman on any level. So when I spank, I always try to make conscious effort to apply one that is erotic without being anymore painful than necessary.

I also am a huge fan of female/female spanking in videos, literature, movies, etc. Part of that is because I don't like for another man to intrude on my fantasy. But I believe that another part of that is due largley to the fact that I have psychological issues with men striking women. However, women spanking other women sort of lets me off the hook in that regard and alllows me to resolve those issues to some degree. I know all of this may sound weird for someone who has had a spanking fetish for most of their life, but that's just how I feel personally."

I have that same issue. I am turned on,excited whatever by the whole spanking thing, for as long as I can remember.
Like some others here, I first found out there were others like me when I discovered MR magazine years ago. Looking back, I realize that the Letters and stories it carried bear but little resemblance to the spanking discussed on Internet sites today. They were usually punishment spankings of one sort of another, usually M/F and would be best described as male chauvinistic in today's context-little concern w/consensuality.
That is not what I have found on most spanking sites I have visited on the Internet. The women there are not whimpering creatures, some may consider themselves feminists(and I have no problem with that).On one side a woman even has a quote from Gloria Steinem in her signature.when she gets spanked, its because its something she is into,not something forced on her.
The world has changed. Spanking on movies or TV,for example, is seen as politically incorrect. On one level that is unfortunate-there are some actresses with gorgeous bottoms,and some movies and shows where a spanking would fit quite well.
Be that as it may, I think we first have to distinguish between our fantasies and r/l/. I like to imagine things happening ,to read or write about them, that I would not want to see in r/l. I say this: if a woman were to be dragged over a man's lap and spanked and she had made it clear she was not into that sort of thing it would be assault.
That doesnt mean we can't enjoy "Kiss Me Kate", "McClintock", "Blue Hawaii", etc. Just don't try to re-enact them except with a willing partner.
I feel I have become much more comfortable with my interest in the subject by reading and participating on spanking sites. I learned that there are others like me who do not condone domestic violence, abuse,.etc yet enjoy giving or receiving spankings.Or reading stories or seeing videos.
Consenting Adults in Real Life, save the other scenarios for fiction.
I too like F/F a lot, and have an open mind toward F/M and M/M. I like a good story. Not too keen on stories with a lot of sex, don't like father/daughter stories,somehow the incest matter just keeps coming up.
No, I am not comfortable with parental or school CP in real life,but I won't start debating that here.I have my opinion, others have theirs, and we''ll likely continue to hold them,so why argue.
Maybe this deviates from the original question- but discussing issues like consent,limits,and making sure no one gets hurt is important.

And beyond whatever particular subject area a spanking site is about, this, I think, is one of the most profound effects of the emergence of the "spanking world" on the Internet. If I've heard anything said repeatedly by those with the spanking kink, it is that the Internet was the magic pill that brought the realization that we were not alone and that there were others, lots of others, who were just like us. That watershed realization having taken place, I think that, through it's never ending discussion, the Internet has helped to guide us in how to handle our special interest in the world, both with ourselves and with other people.

For everyone on this site reading these words, it would be a dramatically different world for us today had Al Gore not invented the Net for us.

RG,

I truly believe special "kudos" should go out to:
Wulfram
Bernie's Spanking Pages

...2 of the first spanking sites on the internet in the mid 90s. It was a Godsend to see those 2 sites when I first got hooked up to the internet. They were trailblazers for those of us who have made spanking on the internet a more comfortable place for spankos!

Amen, Gary! I was a huge fan of both. Who can recall other websites from the earliest days of the Internet spanking world?